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Poll: How Much Should 113 Spend?

Patch survey asks readers to compare potential renovation plans for Deerfield and Highland Park High Schools.

 

Ideas for renovations at Deerfield and Highland Park High Schools crafted by an architectural firm hired by Township High School District 113 were presented at public meetings Tuesday and Wednesday.

Though costs were attached to these proposals, the architects stressed the District 113 Board of Education could choose all or part of any of the plans that range in cost from $92.9 million to $171.9 million according to a letter to the editor from Sam Shapiro of Highland Park who was in attendance Tuesday.

Earlier: District 113 Renovation Plan Gets Closer

In his letter, Shapiro compared the three sets of ideas to a plan he introduced at a meeting in the spring sponsored by Education First, a group which advocated against the $133 million referendum that was defeated in April, 2011. That idea would cost $68.1 million.

Not everyone was receptive to Shapiro’s comparison. Walter Hainsfurther, a member of the steering committee which helped the District take a closer look at different ideas and an architect, felt the comparison was misleading.

“To compare it to the Ed First ‘plan’ is a bit misleading,” Hainsfurther wrote. “It is now two years later and (surprise) costs have gone up. You are not in an ‘apples to apples’ comparison.”

Another reader, Walter White, would rather wait until January before forming an opinion. “Can't really make a decision on this until we know what the Board will be asking from the taxpayers in terms of referendum,” White wrote.” We obviously want to do everything but we have to balance that with cost.

Patch wants to know what its readers think and is seeking your opinion through its latest non scientific poll. The poll will remain open until noon Thursday and the results will be published Friday.

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  • How extensive should renovations to Highland Park and Deerfield High Schools be?

    (Voting has been closed for this question)
    • $68.1 million
        3 (20%)
    • $92.9 million
        2 (13%)
    • $123.4 million
        1 (6%)
    • $171.9
        4 (26%)
    • A combination
        0 (0%)
    • None of the above
        5 (33%)
    Total votes: 15
  • Your vote will only count once. This is not a scientific poll. View Results Vote!
Related Topics: Deerfield High School, Deerfield High School Renovation, Highland Park High School, Highland Park High School Renovation, and Township High School District 113

Carl Lambrecht

8:06 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

Look at Lake Forest High School performance and cost. Number 1 in cost in the state. Performances lower 99 percent.
Highland Park is the same only we are number 5 in cost from over 800 districts. Performance is still lower 99 percent.
.
Deerfield/Highland Park High Schools District 113 Administrative cost is too high. District 113 has less than 500 employees. By federal government standard this is a small business. We have administration like a big organization. Trimming the administrative costs could easily give $5 million dollars to the district.

Illinois school code (LAW) makes construction of schools 10 to 30 percent more expensive.
These corrupt laws need to be corrected.
Carl Lambrecht 847 432 8255, lambrecht@laurelindustries.com

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Pete Trotter

8:16 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

At this point, your poll regarding costs is rather pointless. We can count on the Board wanting a Rolls Royce plan, which will be much more expensive than we either need or can afford.
In the face of declining school age population, why isn't anyone looking at consolidating the two schools into one?

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Dan Jenks

9:44 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

First, student population levels are not going down. Districts 109, 112 and 113 all saw enrollment boosts this year. In fact, District 113 is up 80 students over last year. No one can really see what enrollment is going to be 5+ years from now and it would be very unwise to dramatically cut capacity.

You can argue that fewer and fewer young families are going to move into D113 because of the economy. I could argue that as the real estate market picks up (or at least flattens out), more empty nesters will move out of D113 and younger families will move in. Within a stone’s throw of my house, in fact, there are several empty-nesters with their homes on the market – eventually, these folks will sell - and the ultimate buyers are going to be people with kids. Moreover, if you are starting a family and live in Chicago, where would you rather send your kids to school – CPS or to a school on the North Shore?

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Dan Jenks

9:45 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

Lastly, I don’t understand the impulse to close one of the high schools. Do bigger high schools make for better student outcomes or experiences? And why wouldn’t the towns of Deerfield and Highland Park each want to maintain a local high school? Aren’t these schools part of the fabric of these towns? My in-laws live near a town in rural Kansas where they sent their kids to school. The high school has something like 60 kids in it and the district has 200. Whenever the idea of consolidating this school district (with another school 20 miles away) comes up, people fight it tooth and nail – it’s a matter of local pride - why doesn’t everyone here feel the same way?

A parent

8:52 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

What about a K-12 district, separating HP from Deerfield? Wouldn't this allow educational continuity and reduction of administrative cost?

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Richard Heineman

8:59 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

This is a ridiculous poll that is insulting to the readers. Shame on you Steve! Talking about the money outside of the context of the needs of the district is as stupid as this poll. Steve, you should recuse yourself from writing on this subject and let the more responsible Patch reporters take the lead.

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william brown

9:20 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

FYI
Lake Forest Hs was built by HP in 35 and was part of 113.
They separated in 1950
LF was afraid that North Side HP would end up going to Lf as HP Highlands grew post WW 2
They don't have Highwood or Navy kids and I believe they still send special eds to Hphs
(Hwd still underfunds schools for multi family reasons
This is NOT an attack on people rather a statement of Long term multi family housing being taxed at single housing rates. .
Steve and I both graduated Hphs in 68
We were fortunate that the community cared about educating and provided us with modern facilities programs and staff years before we walked into Hphs
Hphs has a long tradition of being a top school.
That needs to continue.

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Gayle

9:21 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

I completely agree with Rick. This poll is insulting. Steve, you are asking people to vote on a dollar amount without putting any context to what those dollars represent. It's beyond ridiculous.
Pete - a huge NO to the consolidation of the two high schools!I really don't think that's what parents of current and future high school students want.

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NB

9:39 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

While the poll is ridiculous, I also find it ridiculous that both district 113 and 109 want to spend a pretty large sum of money of plant and facilities while so many homes in these districts are still either underwater or seriously undervalued. We still have many people in the districts underemployed or unemployed. We still have people suffereing the consequences of the recession. How about we make sure the current plants are being maintained, wait for people to get back on their feet, and then consider some major upgrades.

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Tony Horwitz

9:54 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

Pete, if you'd been paying attention you would know that whatever the Board asks for, it will be based on an 18 month effort undertaken by a widely divergent group of over 100 community volunteers. This is a community consensus of what is NEEDED, not some whim of the Board of Ed or anyone else. And Carl, would you please remember that this is the 21st century, and railing against the rules that aren't part of the discussion wastes time and space. Also ADA inaccesiblity is one of the main reasons for these needs. Codes are about safety and security, and yeah it does cost a little extra to do things with all safety and security considerations taken into account. We have two of the finest public secondary schools in the entire country, in part thanks to those who came before us and made the investments that have gotten d113 to where it is today, so now WE need to invest so that our children and their children have the same benefit going forward. No Rolls. Just a solid Chevy Suburban, Ford Truck, or Chrysler Van, with leather (for easy cleaning) ABS and stability control (for 21st century safety), but no navigation or entertainment system, that will run for 250,000 miles or so with proper maintaintance, just like our buildings which have lasted 50 and nearly 100 years, but need an upgrade.

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Susan Kozloff

10:41 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

I do not find this poll insulting but rather informing readers of the millions of tax dollars which are being bantied about by the board....especially in light of the meeting soon to take place concerning the raising of the levy for district #113.

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Tony Horwitz

11:05 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

It may be informative, in that it puts some scant information out there that hopefully gets people to investigate further and find that there is a wealth of data on the district 113 website regarding the process that has gone into the current iteration of a long term plan for the district's infrastructure. As for the levy, the nomenclature of "raising" the levy leads to people getting all hot and bothered when it is the annual legal necessity of "raising of the levy" that happens whether an increase in the levy as compared to past years has occurred or not.

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Susan Kozloff

11:21 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

Exactly! And that is why the poll HERE is informative to taxpayers who may not be readug the volumes on the district site. And yes, I am very informed as to levies....though in this case I am sure it will not be going down.

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Elaine Van Dusen

11:33 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

For anyone who attended the really informative meetings that were recently held where these numbers were gleaned from the presenters over and over again said that the numbers (estimates) should NOT be totalled to try to come up with the a final total since so many factors and choices would affect the final tally. Take the time to become truly educated on the subject.

At the end of the day, some parts of HPHS date back to FDR with no moderization since that time. A great deal of the costs will go towards infrastructure...not sexy or visible but completely necessary. Even if you agrue with or choose to ignore projections for the next 5 years, there is neither enough classroom space or PE space for the classes that the schools need to offer the students currently enrolled.

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Larry Jones

11:57 am on Monday, December 3, 2012

Wait a minute here, it seems everyone is concerned about 113. 112 needs the money just as bad and if a referendum is held by 113 first what chance would 112 have to hold their refendum, no way voters would say yes twice. I think both districts should combine their referendums and if there is a yes vote all would prosper, both the pre HS and the HS kids.

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Carl Lambrecht

12:58 pm on Monday, December 3, 2012

Highland Park and Deerfield High School in District 113 had 5000 students in the time my children went to school. Not District 113 has less than 4000 students.

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Walter (Tripp) Hainsfurther

1:00 pm on Monday, December 3, 2012

Lee:

112 is at least 2 years away from deciding what they need to do for their facilities. As a member of the committee they are using, I would say it is more focused on reducing operating costs related to the number of buildings they have as compared to expansion.

113 cannot wait that long. The need is real and waiting will cause us to throw good money after bad. Besides, as Ronnie poiints out, 113 covers area outside of 112's boundaries.

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Larry Jones

1:08 pm on Monday, December 3, 2012

Tripp:By the time you guys decide to do something, like close schools, my SW HP property taxes will double because of property values continuing to drop because of all the young new home buyers avoiding the Red Oak school areas and the young home owners there now not able to get a decent value for their current homes.

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D'skidoc

1:21 pm on Monday, December 3, 2012

So Lee, you'd rather have them do something hasty?

Larry Jones

1:44 pm on Monday, December 3, 2012

Hasty? this is not a new problem!

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D'skidoc

2:06 pm on Monday, December 3, 2012

Sorry Lee, are you referring to 113 or 112? 113s referendum was defeated because some thought the process was hasty. The current, start over from scratch, plan is 18 months in the making and not a bit hasty. Are you suggesting that 112 should rush its planning? That would be hasty, but I'm not in that discussion.

Walter (Tripp) Hainsfurther

2:30 pm on Monday, December 3, 2012

Lee:

With all do respect, I know your concerns and do not believe that a rushed solution will make anyone happy in the end. These are complex issues and deserve a thoughtful approach.

I have spoken with a number of Red Oak area residents in the past month and, surprisingly, not many share your viewpoint. I refuse to believe the district should support a solution that responds to the perceived concerns of a small minority at the potential harm to the majority.

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Bringin' Down Briarwood

3:15 pm on Monday, December 3, 2012

"I refuse to believe the district should support a solution that responds to the perceived concerns of a small minority at the potential harm to the majority."

"Perceived" ... well said!!!

Now we're getting to the crux of the issue. If we can also address the - how can we say this generously - purposeful mischaracterizations, all of this will probably go more smoothly with a good solution for most.

Thanks to everyone who is working so hard on this.

Larry Jones

3:12 pm on Monday, December 3, 2012

Tripp:

With all due repesct, my guess you are not talking parents of K1 and younger, who's kids want to go to school with neighborhood kids that they can walk to school with and have as neighbors and friends for life as my grown up kids do

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Walter (Tripp) Hainsfurther

5:21 pm on Monday, December 3, 2012

I have no idea what the end result of the 112 process will be. I know there is a group that will look at school configurations and they might recommend grade based schools throughout the district, so no one would really attend a "neighborhood" school fr more than a year or two.

And what if they close schools? How is the decision on what to close made? Age of the school? Condition? Neighborhood attendance? Operating costs? These are important decisions that require significant study and it would be a disservice ask District 113 to wait.

As far as the age of the children of the Red Oak parents, I really have no idea. I do know, however, that I was reassured that the military children that attend Red Oak are welcome and appreciated, as they should be.

Eddie Jacobs

9:19 pm on Monday, December 3, 2012

Responding to a poll of this sorts at this time is both presumptious and short sited. As a member of the district steering committee as well as two of the study groups that have met for 18 months to develop priorities and recommendations it is premature to "vote" on any poll, informal or informal. The #113 board has many important decisions to make over the next few weeks and they now have the information they need to make the informed decisions. The raw numbers by themselves that were presented by Gilbane must be viewed in the context of the entire long range master plan. Also, the poll numbers offered do not represent what the real COST to individual property tax payers would be. I think that you would be mildly surprised as to potential cost per household. As noted by others, previous generations laid the groundwork for us to succeed and have good educational environments. It is our responsibility to carry on that work in a way that is fiscally responsible as well as educationally sound.

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Old H.P.

8:30 am on Tuesday, December 4, 2012

I’m just reiterating, but the poll has no context, pick a number between 0 and 172 million?

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Larry Jones

11:33 am on Wednesday, December 5, 2012

Has anyone heard anything about the 112 Caucus decisions?

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